EP8:Is it time to move on? The Administrative Assistant's Guide to Job Searching with Flow Hancox

This episode is sponsored by Autograph Events - THE experts in providing a complete event management solution – from free global venue finding through to full onsite event management.  https://www.autograph-events.co.uk Connect today and ask more about the collaborative promotion for our listeners!

Ever wondered when the right time might be to call it a day and explore fresh opportunities beyond your current job? You're not alone. We're diving headfirst into a robust discussion on recognizing the right moment to move on and the art of navigating the choppy waters of job searching. We tackle harsh realities like toxic work environments and the importance of empathy and loyalty in the ever-evolving job market. Take a walk with us as we explore the outside world and its opportunities that may seem like a distant horizon to you right now, but could soon be your reality.

Our guest for this episode is Flo Hancox, director of Autograph Events who expertly answers our listener question on arranging internal office events.
 
We leave no stone unturned, providing you with tangible tips on researching salaries, and job opportunities. Brave the discomfort of discussing earnings and salaries and learn the importance of feeling at ease with your income. 
 
Finally, we share our mantra of 'network, learn, grow’ and how it can set you on a path to career success and provide a glimpse of our next episode discussing administrative assistance and tech. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Recognizing Time to Move On
• 12:07 Salary Negotiations in Job Search
• 20:05 Organize Events, Job Search Tips

Transcript

Craig Bryson: 0:00

This episode was brought to you by Autograph Events, our sponsor. Thank you for tuning into the Codie Files.

Jodie Mears: 0:25

I'm Craig Bryson and I'm Jodie Mears and together we are the Codie Files. In this episode episode 3, we are going to talk about is it time to move on? The Administrative Assistance Guide to Job Searching Right. Is it time to move on?

Craig Bryson: 0:57

Yeah Gosh, this is a tricky one, it is difficult because you can be in a job and be comfortable, because you're happy with the team. You're happy with everything else. When's it good time to move on? I think it's like fuelled by an event or something happy and also about money, because cost of living is rising it could be prompted by internal and external events for your life.

Jodie Mears: 1:19

You know, within the company there needs to be a catalyst, because not everyone who's happy within their role suddenly thinks, oh, is it time to move on.

Craig Bryson: 1:26

Yeah, you know what?

Jodie Mears: 1:26

do I do now we might, but it's usually fuelled by a bit of an injustice in the company or something's happening at home where you think, right, I've got a spring into action. I cannot tolerate this salary anymore. What do I need to do to get my life moving? How can I support my living expenses? What do I need to do now? So I think it's always prompted by something happening or problems at work.

Craig Bryson: 1:54

Yeah, you're not getting on well with your boss, or with the team Toxic environments.

Jodie Mears: 1:58

awful been there.

Craig Bryson: 2:00

You always say I know interest in office politics, but you always get drawn into it. It sucks.

Jodie Mears: 2:05

Well, office politics is one thing, a toxic office is a completely different thing which can really bear down on your personal well-being when you get up in the morning you want to be able to.

Craig Bryson: 2:17

I'm looking for it's getting to work and seeing JD, or you know you don't want to be like I don't want to get out of bed, I could have caught in sick. I just don't. I energy.

Flow Hancox: 2:25

on that motivation, have you been there?

Craig Bryson: 2:27

I have.

Jodie Mears: 2:28

Yeah, it's horrible, it's horrible.

Craig Bryson: 2:30

Getting up crying and it's like what am I doing? You know You're spiral, don't you?

Jodie Mears: 2:33

Yeah, totally You're spiral into a bit of a depression anxiety every day especially if something is going on. Yeah, we've had quite a lot of input and questions.

Craig Bryson: 2:43

Coming in on us.

Jodie Mears: 2:44

Yeah, personal questions as well, you know this is happening to me at work. What do you think? What should I do? People in that situation really need guidance.

Craig Bryson: 2:53

They do and.

Jodie Mears: 2:54

I know I did when I was in a toxic workplace and it was just awful and not knowing what to do. When Can I get out of here? Is it the right time? And it's almost like a scale go up and down, yeah.

Craig Bryson: 3:09

Pros and cons why am. I staying. That's how it works. In the past it's like, okay, here's all the pros, here's all the cons. And if you see there's so many cons, you're like, oh yeah, that's time to move on.

Jodie Mears: 3:20

Yeah, is it affecting my mental health?

Craig Bryson: 3:22

That's why you have first aiders and you also have mental first aiders.

Jodie Mears: 3:25

Yeah, I'm a mental first aider. I don't know that. Yeah, I'm a mental first aider. It's such a big topic and a massive eye open up to recognize.

Craig Bryson: 3:35

Have that empathy for the people you're working with and if you've been through it, you understand what they are going through. Definitely yeah.

Jodie Mears: 3:42

I think most of our peers and our administrative community would have experienced some form of toxic workplace, having boundaries be breached or, worse, where you think I need to get out of here but I don't know shall. So we're going to cover recognising when it's time to move on and a light-hearted top-level overview of job searching, because, again, it's very personal and also it's our knowledge of our experiences over the last 40 years between us.

Craig Bryson: 4:13

So you know, this is not set in stone. This is just something that we have been through and we wanted to share the knowledge with you. So, in your position, what would you look at first? Would you talk?

Flow Hancox: 4:24

to.

Craig Bryson: 4:24

HR? Or would you just say, okay, this is too toxic, I don't want HR to get involved? How will you just oh?

Jodie Mears: 4:29

my goodness, there's just so many things that have happened. And one thing I can say, without going into too much detail and you know, bringing out some skeletons know that it all works out in the end. You're not going to be stuck in that vicious cycle and some of it can be really vicious, mentally draining, hugely toxic. There is an end to it, but you have to decide when that end comes, and it comes from you.

Craig Bryson: 4:56

And don't put your head in the sand and say, oh, we'll resolve itself. Naturally it won't.

Jodie Mears: 5:01

No, I hope they might leave. Sometimes you've got to be the one who says bye.

Craig Bryson: 5:06

Yeah, I'm going to take the first step, and this is what I want when it is.

Jodie Mears: 5:09

Definitely so. That aside, let's just assume that something awful hasn't happened and you're just wondering when is the time to move on. I've always said to myself loyalty doesn't pay, Because I've been in roles and situations before where I've spent years and years of my life with those people. With almost like you're heading the sand to the outside world to an extent when comfortable.

Jodie Mears: 5:37

Yeah, where you're going through the mill of every month. You're living months and months away but you're having a nice life. You enjoy your work, but you're totally oblivious to the outside world of the market rate of your role at the moment.

Craig Bryson: 5:49

Yeah.

Jodie Mears: 5:51

What's happening outside of your organization and what's out there for you as a horizon, as a goal for you to get to.

Craig Bryson: 5:59

And you deserve it, your future self is going to ask why the hell haven't you just come out and started this, do you?

Jodie Mears: 6:06

want it.

Craig Bryson: 6:07

That's the passion for it.

Jodie Mears: 6:08

Yeah, you have to have a conversation with yourself. What do I want? And that's the most hardest question to ask yourself is what do I want? Doesn't matter what everyone else wants, and I'm just helping them be the best they can. What do you want for yourself?

Craig Bryson: 6:22

Yeah, but something from my experience I always saw I don't think I could do it. I don't think what happened, I know everything here, but if I go there I won't know anything. And I think it's that daunting fear of I'm going to fail and therefore I'm good in this position.

Jodie Mears: 6:37

Now I don't want to go out like comfort zone and my bubble, you know it would be difficult to come out of the bubble, but once you come out of your comfort zone, eyes opened and everything's amazing, they say the magic happens on the other side of your comfort zone, which means you've got to be very uncomfortable for a little while before you see and feel the benefits of your action.

Craig Bryson: 7:01

I agree.

Jodie Mears: 7:01

So I would say don't put up with anything for too long. If something awful has happened, get advice, get help, get support. You might want to do some coaching, you might want to do some therapy to get that confidence back in yourself, because these workplaces can really bash you down and they can bring you down so many levels. I've been there. Don't worry, there is light as long as you initiate the light switch.

Craig Bryson: 7:28

And even if there isn't anything toxic there, have a look at the job websites and seeing what are the EAs in your position and your level, what are they getting and how are they achieving more money than you. So have a look around, even if you don't want to just have a browse, and then that will start giving your mental thing oh, if I had that position I could do this and that. From that it will start growing that seed of confidence.

Jodie Mears: 7:52

But understand what your drivers are.

Craig Bryson: 7:54

Is it financial?

Jodie Mears: 7:55

Yeah, Is it personal growth or?

Craig Bryson: 7:57

is it travel because it's too far to go in?

Jodie Mears: 7:59

Yeah, but what are your drivers? What is driving you to make this change and understand? Is it time to move on Once you understand your inner thoughts and put that down into something?

Craig Bryson: 8:13

tangible, clear and tangible.

Jodie Mears: 8:15

I think going from there really helps. So what is it that you're looking for For me? I always wanted to know the next steps, when I had that feeling of am I really going to sit here for the next 25 years doing the same thing?

Craig Bryson: 8:31

Am I going to retire?

Jodie Mears: 8:32

Yeah, it's a bit of an epiphany moment when you think, wow, I could literally be sitting in the same seat until I retire.

Craig Bryson: 8:39

Yeah, am I happy with that. Well, some people are.

Jodie Mears: 8:43

Some people are, they want more.

Craig Bryson: 8:45

They want more.

Jodie Mears: 8:45

They want to see, they want to achieve, they want to do something. And it's not by any means a negative thought If you just want to do your job, stay in the same company for 35 years and get your pension and go. Yeah, there's plenty of people like that, and that's what works for them. Yeah, for me. I always wanted to see well, what else can I?

Craig Bryson: 9:06

do yeah, me too.

Jodie Mears: 9:07

You know more, can I add to my role?

Craig Bryson: 9:08

What's next? Yeah, excitement sort of adventure.

Jodie Mears: 9:12

Yeah, because you want to take your learning to a next level and apply that into maybe the same organisation, if there's opportunity to.

Craig Bryson: 9:19

Yeah, what's next.

Jodie Mears: 9:21

So our guides to job searching is really individual. It depends what your drivers are, your motive, what you're looking for. So once you understand those three things and you've had that honest conversation with yourself, that will help. Things. To be wary of other drivers that might lead you to this decision might be salary boundings.

Flow Hancox: 9:41

We covered that in a previous episode. Yes, it's understanding.

Jodie Mears: 9:43

What is that? What does that mean?

Craig Bryson: 9:45

Yeah.

Jodie Mears: 9:46

For me in big organisations it's literally a scale. So you have an entry level salary and then you have the top level salary and you are within a band and you can usually number or give a letter to these.

Jodie Mears: 10:01

Band in B for example that means once you've achieved what you need to achieve through various performance reviews, checklist exercises or even length of service, you've reached the top of that band in. There's nowhere for you to go unless your organisation is willing to put a business case together, to go to head office or the powers that be, and say how can we extend this person outside of the salary banding? Yeah, that's personal.

Craig Bryson: 10:36

That is personal. So understanding where you fit within a salary banding and what the chances of ever getting that salary banding breached, yeah, Because it's difficult, because you don't know what other people in your team has actually got the same salary, what banding they are, because it's not transparent?

Jodie Mears: 10:53

No, it's not transparent.

Craig Bryson: 10:54

It's not transparent.

Jodie Mears: 10:56

It's dodgy area, isn't it yeah?

Craig Bryson: 10:59

Some clients don't like sharing that information.

Jodie Mears: 11:01

So if you've done everything you can, you're stuck in a banding for administrative staff, for example, and you know there's more out there for you and you've asked those questions what can I do to get outside of that salary banding? I mean, you might go over it, naturally with annual increments, which you've been there years. But I mean proper pay rise. I don't mean the APR, the 1%, 2% that everyone gets naturally every year.

Flow Hancox: 11:28

That's not a pay rise.

Jodie Mears: 11:30

That's just a natural increment. So understand where you are in those bandings. If that applies to your organisation, am I restricted by a salary banding or is it pretty much freed up? So there's a lot more autonomy there to go a bit further within the role we could touch on salaries. It's so geographic as well, yeah. So if you're about to talk about salaries, you've got to be comfortable with what you're talking about and what you're earning is what you feel like you're worth.

Craig Bryson: 12:00

Because sometimes people don't feel as worthy themselves until you get over that and you think I deserve this.

Jodie Mears: 12:07

Salaries are a bit of a minefield when it comes to this topic of discussion. It's so subjective, my favourite word.

Flow Hancox: 12:18

It really is personal, it's geographical.

Craig Bryson: 12:22

It depends on the size of the organisation, the industry sector.

Jodie Mears: 12:26

There's so many things, but I would say you need to be comfortable with what you're earning. Obviously You're getting what you're worth and don't be afraid to ask if you're using an agency. Set your boundaries when you're being presented with different opportunities. Don't let them override you with well. I think you should go for that. You don't know what their motives are Exactly they might just be trying to get this filled or get the shortlist over to the client and she would accept this stupid salary because it makes them look better.

Jodie Mears: 12:56

So be wary of that, because there are things that go on in recruitment. So I would say first of all, though, let's backtrack If you enlist in the help of an industry specific recruiter usually they already know the role inside out, where they can be in your corner and understand the wants and needs of their client yes and almost give them a realistic approach to their search to say, well, I don't think you're actually gonna get what you want for that salary, so they're gonna be in your corner from day one.

Craig Bryson: 13:32

But you need to sort out your CV. You need to list everything that you do. If you just say, oh, I do, I'm answering telephone, it doesn't give them much to work with.

Jodie Mears: 13:41

CVs yeah, it needs to be really on point. It needs to be specific to the job. Always tailor it, Don't use the same one over and over.

Jodie Mears: 13:51

Yeah, we're going back a step even further still. There's no hard and fast rule to CVs. It's whatever best represents you and what you're comfortable with. But listing your key achievements within a role rather than I answered the phone, I sought out emails and I sought out the Christmas party what did you actually achieve? What were your accomplishments in that role? High level bullet points it should be easy to digest.

Craig Bryson: 14:17

really hard hitting with the facts of the role and not six, seven pages. As soon as you see that they just bin it.

Jodie Mears: 14:23

No, we used to be like one or two lex One page double-sided. But I would say, in listing a help in a specialist recruitment rather than a general one, you might get more tailored answers that you're seeking.

Craig Bryson: 14:36

Yeah, I mean if you're a sort of an exec search EA and then you would go to an agency or that specializes in that, because a lot of like the A's are in like law. So if you wanted to go into that, you'll have to go to an agency that deals with law, executive assistance, as you were saying, general ones, they just anybody here who's gonna put CV4 would just get a job. They just not really what you want.

Jodie Mears: 15:02

Don't be afraid to negotiate and to be upfront. I think it's far easier to have these conversations about salaries at the start.

Craig Bryson: 15:12

Because you're wasting everybody's time. You're like the final person going through for your interview there's a lot of salary I wanted, and then you pull out. You just waste everybody's time.

Jodie Mears: 15:20

Yeah, and some salaries aren't even listed.

Craig Bryson: 15:23

What is that about? I mean we should get one of the agencies, a recruiter, contributing about. Why don't they have these salaries shown on the podcast To me?

Jodie Mears: 15:33

it's slightly negative and can be a waste of time, because the job description, as we discussed previously, can be all very samey, very high level. They don't distinguish what it is that makes this job application worthy of not displaying the salary. I need to know, because I need to know. If it's a junior salary, I can guess, especially area dependent, of course.

Flow Hancox: 16:02

If you know your geographic. Yeah, if you know that information.

Jodie Mears: 16:05

You know the average salary of your role. I can guess and read between the lines to say all right, this sounds like a junior role, the salary sounds junior. The years of experience, minimum experience it's like two years. One year it sounds junior, so we really need those displayed. It can waste everybody's time, but for me the negative side of not displaying it it makes me feel like they wanna just see who they can get for as little as possible. So they're waiting for you. It's a bit like a game of cards isn't it Like?

Craig Bryson: 16:39

well, what do you want? What are you looking for? What are you looking for? Tell me your skills. Well, tell me your salary, first Salary. I would tell you my skills. Yeah, you go first.

Jodie Mears: 16:49

And what you expect and you think I don't wanna overshoot, in case they say oh, hang on a minute.

Flow Hancox: 16:54

No, it's not that type of role.

Jodie Mears: 16:56

And then you don't wanna undervalue yourself because, it's difficult to come up from a figure that you've given, is it?

Craig Bryson: 17:03

Yeah, and some people have sometimes a low opinion of themselves. They always think that they should have that much when they actually they should be up here. So that's also another.

Jodie Mears: 17:14

The gender pay gap is big thing as well. Oh, definitely, definitely, and a big piece of work. So, with all that said, my top tip here would be don't be too worried about overshooting when you're saying what you want. If that's what you want, that's what you want.

Craig Bryson: 17:31

Yeah.

Jodie Mears: 17:32

Don't be afraid to tell them I need a minimum of this amount. Don't be afraid to walk away, because everyone that you walk away from there's 10 more lined up?

Flow Hancox: 17:42

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's always something around the corner.

Jodie Mears: 17:46

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Craig Bryson: 18:39

So we have a listeners question. This listeners question remains to be anonymous.

Flow Hancox: 18:53

Hi, grady, I'm event planning for our office festive get-together.

Jodie Mears: 18:57

I am quite used to the myriad of tasks involved and always pull it off nicely, but it is becoming trickier to coordinate, especially when I'm on my own. Do you have any suggestions, please? Thank you for that listener question. It is one that we get again and again.

Flow Hancox: 19:12

Quite often actually.

Jodie Mears: 19:13

It's part of our role. It's part of our daily task Organising events. It is tricky. So to answer this question, we are very pleased to introduce you, flo Hancockx. She is director of Autograph Events, also our main show sponsor, and she will give you her top tips in event organising.

Flow Hancox: 19:38

Hi there, grady Files. This is Flo Hancockx from Autograph Events. I'm the sales director here. Autograph Events are a full service event management and venue finding agency, so we work globally to help our clients with finding venues for their events big or small, event management on site and help him with incentives, team building and conferencing. I'd love to help answer your listeners question.

Flow Hancox: 20:05

There's some top tips, I guess, to really prioritise when you start looking at organising events and a thing to think about is no-to-events are the same for you or a venue that you're going to. So firstly, the preferred type of venue or fixed date, which is your priority. If you've got a fixed date, that tends to make things a little easier because you can go out to a range of venues and you get their availability straight away, and that almost narrows the field down for you and gives you a short list. If the preferred type of venue is quite specific or maybe you actually just need to have a look at lots of different types, not having a fixed date then makes things a wider field for you. You can go out, see lots of different types of offerings. It might be conference centres, it might be restaurants and bars, hotels, and they all offer very different surroundings for your event. It really depends what type of event you're trying to put on. If it's an office get-together, then maybe it's a bit more social, a bit more network-y, rather than a conference and quite formal. So maybe you'd be looking for something more like a restaurant, a bar area in a hotel. They offer fantastic surroundings and there's some fabulous locations available to you.

Flow Hancox: 21:34

Once you've got your date or your venue preference and you've got the list of venues that have got availability for you, then obviously you need to short list. Now this might be on budget, I think at the beginning definitely have a budget in mind before you go out to venues or before you go and see venues as well, because it might be that you fall in love with this venue of your dreams and actually the budget just doesn't stretch to it, and that's really disappointing and can be quite disheartening. So I have a budget in mind and then you know what is available to you and budgets are also good for the venue because the venue can then work towards what you're looking for and you're looking to put on. Once you've been to see them and you understand the spaces that are available to you and that you like and that tick the boxes for what you're trying to offer. Then ask the terms and conditions contracts and check that you're happy with those terms and conditions and when payments need to be made. Do they fit with how you make payments? If you're on longer payment terms, will they negotiate? That's something to sort of have the conversation up front first, because there's nothing worse than kind of getting way down the line and actually they don't adhere to your payment terms or you can't work to theirs, I think. Then obviously get your date in the diaries.

Flow Hancox: 22:58

People say, give that safer date quite early on and then start coordinating things like dietary requirements, final numbers, you know, are there specific menu options, that you want specific drinks behind the bar? Do the venues need certain details from you that maybe you need to get up front and ahead of for them? And then I would say, with regards to kind of larger numbers, there's software out there that can help you coordinate all of those details. And again, it's all very bespoke. No two events are the same and there are a lot of options out there for you in terms of coordinating that.

Flow Hancox: 23:43

We can help with our algebra or you can do it in-house with, I don't know, maybe Excel forms, that kind of thing. I think the thing to think about is the coordination have a timeline for when the venue needs details from you and have a timeline for when you need to deliver this event and then just kind of tick things off as you go. We can save you legwork, time and money with the venue finding part of kind of the process. Really it does save the legwork. It means that we can then produce it in one easy to read proposal. You can shortlist for that and then we will organise site visits for you. But it's very much kind of how much you want help or need coordination with.

Craig Bryson: 24:36

My top tip will be take care of yourself. I think job searching can be stressful, so it's important to take the process in small pieces and then stick it slowly. Don't rush into it and then end up in a new job within a month and a half and decide, oh, this is not what I wanted.

Jodie Mears: 24:55

And have those difficult conversations. Learn your conversational skills or brush up on your negotiation skills.

Craig Bryson: 25:01

Yeah, that's a good point.

Jodie Mears: 25:04

Don't be afraid. If you're not feeling you're there yet in having those difficult conversations, maybe try a few online courses. Most of them are free. Don't always have to pay for these things. To be honest, you can get a lot of free resources.

Craig Bryson: 25:16

Well use your networking. Networking is great. People will know. Now I know somebody who knows. Somebody always helps.

Jodie Mears: 25:23

I mean, this is our life.

Craig Bryson: 25:26

It is.

Jodie Mears: 25:27

Yeah, we have an excellent. We love our network. We love our listeners because as soon as we ask something, we know some we're going to get so many answers back.

Flow Hancox: 25:34

Definitely. Likewise it's never, one way Never.

Jodie Mears: 25:37

We're always sharing knowledge or tips, contacts. So don't be afraid Say can I have a conversation, a practice conversation with you? You know, I want to brush up on my confidence. I want to go into this interview and say I'm looking for this. Your job description screams this figure to me. That's what I feel that you are pitching that salary-wise. Yeah, be prepared to walk away and say okay, thank you for your time and move on. Understanding what your drivers are. To move on. If it's those nasty ones we spoke about at the beginning, don't hang around too long, don't.

Jodie Mears: 26:14

Get out and remember, you are not a tree A tree.

Craig Bryson: 26:18

We've seen this so many times on.

Jodie Mears: 26:19

LinkedIn. You are not a tree. You don't have roots. You can get up and leave your desk, leave the company, get out of there, understand your worth, back up what you're saying, what you need, what do you need to support your life at home, your responsibilities? What do you need? Don't be afraid. Don't be a tree. Yeah, so we've come to the end of episode three. This has been a really interesting one.

Jodie Mears: 26:46

It has been difficult, it is difficult to stay high level because you can really go into some personal experiences that we just can't go there. But it's really interesting and all depends on you. Be open to new opportunities for sure. Understand what drives you. Where do you want to go? Yeah, don't be afraid to negotiate. I agree. Your one was take care of yourself.

Craig Bryson: 27:13

That's a really nice one.

Jodie Mears: 27:14

My mantra that I've been using recently and to remind myself network.

Craig Bryson: 27:20

Network Learn, learn Grow.

Jodie Mears: 27:23

Networking really helps.

Craig Bryson: 27:26

It's like iron shoppers iron so does one man shop another, oh like that, never heard of that.

Jodie Mears: 27:32

Never Say it again.

Craig Bryson: 27:34

As iron shoppers. Iron so does one man shop another?

Jodie Mears: 27:37

Oh yeah, can you say it in Zulu? I can also speak Zulu, by the way. Just throwing that one in there. Network, use your network, use your support. As a community, as a profession, we are highly reactive to when one of us needs advice and help.

Jodie Mears: 27:56

Support Just reach out and if you have any questions for us, please send them in. Check out the website and scroll to the bottom. You can submit your high crudy questions there. They can be anonymous. They can be read out by yourself. Don't be afraid to ask. We've got loads already, so we look forward to receiving them. Thank you for listening. It's been a great episode and we look forward to receiving your questions and emails. You're not alone and keep sharing that knowledge.

Craig Bryson: 28:27

In our next episode, we shall be discussing an administrative assistance guide to using new tech. I'm Craig Bryson.

Jodie Mears: 28:36

And I'm Jodie Mears.

Craig Bryson: 28:38

And together we are.

Jodie Mears: 28:39

The Crudy Files.

Craig Bryson: 28:42

This episode was brought to you by Autograph Events, our sponsor.