The Crodie Files Podcast- For Administrative Assistants and Business Support Professionals
The Crodie Files is a podcast hosted by two career Executive Assistants currently in the role, supporting C-Suite Corporate Executives.
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The Crodie Files Podcast- For Administrative Assistants and Business Support Professionals
EP11:Navigating Office Protocol for Administrative Assistants with Joan Burge
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Are your office conversations hitting the mark or missing the connection? Discover how to bring back the charm of telephone manners in an era where inboxes and instant messaging rule.
Craig and Jodie unpack the subtleties of office communication and invite you on a journey to rekindle the personal touch. From the strategic placement of contact details in email signatures to the art of phone introductions, this episode of the Crodie Files is all about mastering the blend of old-school etiquette with new-school tech.
Email threads can be a minefield of misunderstood tones. Hear us discuss the power of personalization in email crafting, and take away practical tips to aid your role. But it's not just about what you say it's about how you use your human intelligence (H.I.) to enhance your efficiency and warmth.
Lastly, from 'reply all' catastrophes to the nuances of executive boundary setting, Craig and Jodie draw from their vast experiences to offer solidarity and strategies for handling the hurdles.
Our listener question: "What certifications are helping assistants progress at the moment? There are so many with Post-nominal initials but what relevance (if any) do they offer and what results have you seen from investing in courses that give you this result"?
Our expert contributor: Joan Burge
Joan is the pioneer of the administrative training industry and the founder of Office Dynamics International. Joan has created numerous innovative programs and courses that inspire excellence and empower assistants to reach for the stars. She is the host of the Annual Conference for Administrative Excellence and the author of four books for administrative professionals. Connect with Joan Burge and Office Dynamics to explore training options and learn more.
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Joan Burge - "I love this question about certifications and designations. It's fabulous. So first of all, they are different. A certification does not always come with a professional designation, but a professional designation will include certification".
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Speaker 2:Thank you for tuning in to the Crowdy Files.
Speaker 1:I'm Craig Bryson.
Speaker 2:And I'm Jodie Mears.
Speaker 1:And together we are the Crowdy Files.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Episode 11, Navigating Office Protocol, a podcast that provides essential guidelines for administrative assistance. In this episode, we will be discussing the importance of office etiquette and how to navigate it effectively. Telephone etiquette.
Speaker 1:It's changed, is that?
Speaker 2:even a thing anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like using the phone when I can, though.
Speaker 1:I use the phone when I want some answers now or if I'm being introduced to a new EA. I like to give them a call and go Hi, how are you? And introduce myself.
Speaker 2:Do you still have a desk phone?
Speaker 1:We use Jabba now, so it's all connected to your PC and then your desk phone is directed to your mobile. But when you call through Jabba it comes out as your desk phone number, so VoIP voice over internet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm very similar, so I call a telephone, call a team's phone call. But there are still, especially return to the office situation. Yeah, are there telephone? Are we still dealing with switchboards?
Speaker 1:uh, maybe yeah, maybe we don't have a switchboard, but we always have to dial zero to get out. Okay when I speak or call people, I feel I get to know them better, a little bit more definitely, instead of reading emails, because they can come across the email very sharp and prickly, but then when you speak to them on the phone they were such a different person that you envisioned in your mind what they were like.
Speaker 2:I think it comes down to the art of communication.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Communicating effectively. You've got so many different options to communicate these days that I still like the telephone option Telephone that sounds so old-fashioned.
Speaker 4:Old-fashioned.
Speaker 2:A phone call any which way you like, Especially when things are going back forth and the responses are getting shorter and sharper and even more further away from the initial question.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Grab the phone, yeah, and speak to people just as you would in everyday life. I don't think you need to have a particular etiquette. Maybe if the sector is very much sales orientated, you will have that natural, natural intro outro kind of structure to your conversations yeah, but in our situation, when those emails are getting too much or when there's just lack of responses on direct messaging on teams, for example, just try your luck.
Speaker 1:Make a phone call and sometimes the ears don't even have their telephone number on their signature, so that is sometimes never possible. That's true, so you, have to email them and go. What is your telephone number so you can get them a call?
Speaker 2:Make sure that we're not limiting our options to be communicated with. That's correct and for me this is a good reminder. Make sure I check my signature when I get back. Try to make sure I'm not going to limit the ways in which people can reach me.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:And if I am putting my mobile number, make sure you're okay with being called on that mobile number. Yeah, I am, because it frees me up.
Speaker 1:Definitely.
Speaker 2:To be available, be reactive and responsive over a variety of communication methods. Yeah, I 100% agree, but I don't think there's any hard and fast rules these days of you know how to answer the phone correctly or your phone voice.
Speaker 1:It's funny when clients call me and I'm in the office and I say who I am and how can I address their question. But if a friend of mine calls me on my office phone, they say can I speak to Craig Bryson please? And I said this, is he speaking? And like oh, you sound so different, you sound like very professional and so totally different voice. And they didn't recognize. When I answered the phone it's like well, you called me on my work phone and not my personal phone.
Speaker 2:Well, it's good in a way, because you can switch, and that's all about adaptability and being able to be flexible in your working environment. I don't think you should necessarily take your personality away, but being able to adapt to where you are. Who's calling you? Having that be ready voice? Yes Of hi. This is yeah. Having that be ready voice of hi. This is Jodie. How may I assist you?
Speaker 1:And sometimes, when they say, oh, it's Jessica from this company, I'm like, oh hi, and you have no idea who they? Are, but they talk to you as if they know you and they should know you. But you have so many clients to go through, so you just fake it until you start realizing oh, I know who she is now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the penny drop moment, isn't it Of like so many forms of communication that have not seen that relationship build up? Personally, with that say, with Jessica, yeah, because you've been emailing back and forth maybe for the last two or three years. Yeah, but you've never made that human connection no.
Speaker 1:And I always have a different visual of that person. I mean, I'm sure everybody out there is listening to this. When you're emailing somebody, I sort of create this picture of what this person's like, but then when you speak to them, it's like, oh, that sounds totally different to what I thought. Or when you meet them, it's like, wow, you are so different in my mind and how do you deal with that? I don't tell them, you don't tell them, because it can be a compliment but can be an insult that's true.
Speaker 1:You gotta curb the insults, greg um, let's get on to email etiquette. How do you feel about that? Well, it's a lot you can break down. Mine is I know what yours is.
Speaker 2:Yours is very happy, positive. Hi, how are you? I hope you have a lovely day and you make sure you have a good day and a good evening, and yeah, yeah, and I think it does make me smile though, exactly that's what I want, yeah yeah, and I'll try. You have your in your introduction line and your your icebreaker, and then you go in with the actual. This is what I need. Yeah, in craig positivity language closed by now. You have a great evening and enjoy your weekend when it arrives and.
Speaker 1:But then I get an email like tuesday at six o'clock and I'm like I'm mortified I took all that time to write there and I just get, and sometimes it'sly, I've grown to get used to it. It's not everybody is cut out of the same cloth. No, no, what about you? You're very professional. You just get to the point. This is what I want. I like to get to the point.
Speaker 2:But I also like to read in between the lines of who. I'm emailing to. This is why automated emails won't work for me, because I like to make sure I'm reacting to the person I'm speaking to, and automated emails for me.
Speaker 2:I know you can edit them afterwards or whatever but it doesn't necessarily fit the person that I'm emailing at the time. That's true. So I do like to blend a little bit of what you do with a little bit of help from, say, Copilot or with generative AI, with email content or format suggestions. Mix it up to tailor it to the recipient, because I do think it's important not to have so much of a robotic structure to your emails I agree.
Speaker 1:But I mean, all the listeners know that I have dyslexia, way I write the way I think. So now what I do now I've got what's doing co-pilot is that I write the structure of my email and then I put it in and then it sort of comes back shorter and to the point, but it's got my style, and then I read sort of ad bits that it's taken out and then I add it and that's helped me a lot. And by reading what ChatGPT has written I start remembering it and then I tend to not use ChatGPT because I've remembered how to word the structure of the email.
Speaker 2:That's the perfect way to do it, I think, going forward if we just branch into that topic slightly, because that is a whole thing on its own that's generative AI at its best.
Speaker 2:It's a learning tool. It's a prompt. You put a prompt in, you get a prompt back. If you don't solely rely on that back and forth exchange with say, in this instance, co-pilot, you're actually learning a new way of communicating and then having that penny drop moment to think to yourself, oh, that's another kind of new line I can pick up, and then I've remembered that, like you said, I'll drop it into the next email and for you, then you're going to be using those tools less because you're learning as you go, and that is so important. It is important situation. So when you're having a little bit of time, of lack of creativity, you think I just don't even know what to say to this person right now.
Speaker 2:We've been over it 15 times over the last 15 weeks. What do they not get? About me we have no availability. Had no availability 15 weeks ago. We still have no availability, you think?
Speaker 1:just not being rude, but yeah, you need co-pilot to help you yeah, let's try and get to the point.
Speaker 2:Is it me not getting to the point? Have I not said no, clear enough? Is there a million ways to say you can't have that appointment, you can't have that slot, it's still not available? Yeah, so I do agree, that's an excellent way. That's an excellent use of the new tools we have around email. That is generating, in a sense, its own etiquette and its own kind of voice, but as long as you can keep it tailor-made, and you'll start forgetting how to structure a sentence Absolutely, because you're depending on that.
Speaker 1:So much that you won't even know how to write an email. So the younger generation they mustn't rely on that totally. They need to let it to be a guide for them to create an email, but don't use it all the time. It's like, for example, I remember all my telephone numbers before mobiles came out Gosh you're good.
Speaker 2:Now I don't even know anybody's telephone numbers before mobiles came out now I don't even know anybody's telephone number. You had to ask someone for help and you need to call your partner and you think I am no idea what the phone number is no, that's changed, that this that is a big danger it is with yeah, it's so good and it is so wildly amazing that it's going to become addictive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, using it in the way you've just used it and got a really excellent, quick, fast response reply, and then you think that was amazing. I'm just going to rinse and repeat and do that again every time yeah. And then, like you said, you forget to learn from that. So I've got a new thing that's in my head.
Speaker 1:What is that?
Speaker 2:With the AI. So when we're focusing, let's bring this back to topic. We go off topic quite a lot. So with the auto-generated email you can use, is it quick parts and things?
Speaker 4:in Outlook anyway, Definitely yeah, macros as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've been able to use that for years, but whilst we're moving into this generative AI and all these millions of tools, it feels like we shouldn't lose sight of HI.
Speaker 1:Ah HI Human, oh human.
Speaker 2:Human intelligence Definitely.
Speaker 1:So we've, got artificial intelligence. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking but what about human intelligence? Is that going to dwindle or will it increase, depending, on how you use it.
Speaker 2:That's so I'm whenever I hear ai because ai is not just chat, gpt and co-pilot, that's generative. Ai is in our world all the time. Now anyway, yeah. But whenever I hear ai, I quickly think, yeah, but what about the HI? What about my human intelligence? Should I not be trying to keep up with what would be impossible for me to keep up with AI and my technology? But you see where I'm going with it.
Speaker 1:I totally that's a good point. When you said HI, I'm thinking oh, there's a new software that I don't know. Do you want to add another one to the list? I think that's a good point.
Speaker 2:When you said HI, I'm thinking oh, there's a new software that I don't know. Oh, do you want to add another one to the list? I think that's a really good way of structuring. I think, even though we're talking about email etiquette in this sense, it comes down to effective communication.
Speaker 1:Communication.
Speaker 2:And your call to action at the end, what do you want that person to respond with?
Speaker 1:I want them to send the email no, you don't. No, I want them to send the diary invite right and it's like, oh, it's in, done, deleted or perfect.
Speaker 2:So then your structure works for that person, though, I may add, because sometimes you can do all of that, and then the recipient will still come back with some weird question and you think, yeah, but that having that call to action after you've done all your niceties and hi, how are you, how was your coffee the other day?
Speaker 2:and you haven't thrown them off course completely, I think, having that call to action at the end of the email, or even what about copying that to the top of the email in case your email is too long.
Speaker 1:That's another thing. I put everything that is like location, date, time in the subject and if somebody emails you do not respond. Change the subject Because when you're trying to search for an email that a client or candidate it's going to be the same. You need to change it to what you are going to be putting in, even though you're replying to the email or forwarding an email on.
Speaker 2:I always change the subject. Is that what you do?
Speaker 1:So that when my boss says, where did you get this email, and I can actually type it in and that will come up. But I have to remember what the subject was before, if I didn't change it.
Speaker 2:That's a risk.
Speaker 1:That is a risk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess if there's many people involved involved, I wouldn't change the subject.
Speaker 1:Okay, or start a new email, if it's just one and two people.
Speaker 2:I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 1:And also never forward an email that your boss has sent to a client's EA. Always check what's down below, because there's probably information there that's confidential. There might be. You don't want them to see, are you talking from a horror story experience, so I believe my mistakes is letting me know, giving me feedback of how I can better myself Definitely and knowledge is power. By me making that mistake, I will never do it again.
Speaker 2:No way. I think we've all done it. I've definitely done it where you've replied all or you've just hit forward and you haven't gone through it, although in recent times I have hit the forward button whilst checking, because sometimes someone will forward you an email and say something inappropriate in terms of let me give you some context, jodie, deal with this with this person again. They're not getting it. Tell them to leave me alone yeah, and then you, and then I forward it.
Speaker 2:But I always switch on at that point thinking, oh my, yeah, let me delete that. So if you can actually delete part of the email train, as I call it, or thread, when you forward, so I'll highlight and delete that part, definitely. So the middle part of the thread from my executive, the content might be blank because I've deleted that. Yeah, but I want to show in that thread that my executive has forwarded it on to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now I'm replying on their behalf.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Reply all. I hate reply all, especially if you're like it's for hr. So if you're emailing hr or hr emails you and they just want to know how are you dealing with your time, and then it's gone to 165 people and then people just reply all and it says well, I'm going to be out with my daughter or I've got blisters on the back of my feet from these new shoes that I've just received.
Speaker 1:And then I was like just take me off this list because you get like 15. And then you're thinking, oh, my inbox is full. I can't believe I've got 15 emails. I've got to get through. Then you realize, oh, just delete the whole thing, and it's frustrating.
Speaker 2:So always make sure that you check to see if it's going to reply at all. Yeah, it happens, isn't it? Yeah, and you always feel for the person who's hit? Reply all I always want to reach out and say you didn't mean to do that, did you well?
Speaker 1:and also you're trying to recall, recall, recall, but once it goes out it's difficult because some emails when you do a recall button in outlook, if you're using outlook, if you recall it, if that person's already read it, it can't recall that email. It can only recall emails that have not been read.
Speaker 2:Am I the only person who can never, in a time of panic, find the recall button? Shouldn't there just be a button all to itself on the ribbon and it needs to be read. Why is it in? Someone's got to help me with this one.
Speaker 2:Why is it in file? Why is it in? Someone's got to help me with this one. Why is it in file? Why is it in this? And then you go to here, and then you go to here, and it's like I can't click six times when I'm in a panic. No, everything's blurred.
Speaker 1:Can someone help me with that please?
Speaker 2:There must be an option in Outlook specifically to get that recall email now in one button, one click yeah.
Speaker 1:I have a couple of EAs that have a time delay on their sent items, so you can go to settings and when you send an email to a client or anybody, you have like one minute to go.
Speaker 1:Oh, let me check that quickly and then you open it up. But it can also have a negative effect, because if your boss is in a meeting and he's like 10 minutes late, he wants that document to go in, and you want the document now and it's like I've sent it, I've sent it and you're looking and it's that one minute thing and it's in the outbox, oh no. But it does work more for positive than negative, but it does work more for positive than negative.
Speaker 2:I've worked with that before in the actual inbox, when we can hover when you want to just read and then it instantly marks it as read. Oh yes, so I've got a setting that will allow me to click on an email, give me 30, 40 seconds, or I think I've got it for a minute or something just to read it in the view pane. Oh wow, and then it still is marked unread oh, that's clever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to give me a little bit of time, because when you click on an email in someone else's inbox, you think, oh God, I don't want them to think I'm being nosy or I've read that. I know you can mark it back as unread, but yeah, that's something. So what about professionalism? Why do you think that we've even got that written down? I've been noticing that there's been a lot of information again and LinkedIn posts about professionalism. I just take that for granted.
Speaker 1:I thought that was a sort of standard.
Speaker 2:A given thing that everyone would know about.
Speaker 1:As soon as I walk into the office, my whole persona changes and I act and I respect other people and I also interact with other people. The way I want to be reacted with, but mine is more sunshine yellow, smiling and everybody's like. Craig, you're always smiling. It's just like well, it makes other people smile. It makes other people it does, and they always remember me so and it can be.
Speaker 2:Professionalism is not something that's naturally instilled into everyone as a given trait, and things like mood situation, mental health, physical health can all play a part in how someone acts and reacts. And that will in turn affect professionalism. But I think, with someone like you and I, when we can read I think all assistants actually have that intuition to read people really quickly, to know if….
Speaker 1:He's in a bad mood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's just dial this back or not expect too much professionalism. The only thing I will not waver on, though, is common courtesy. Oh, definitely, I think you can be in the worst situation mentally in the world, which is awful, but there still needs to be manners and respect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've noticed some executives that are with other EAs. When they had a horrible meeting or in a bad mood, they come out and they take all that anger out on the EA and that infuriates me, oh gosh. And it's like you can't do that. You need to go for a walk or a coffee and then come back. You've got to respect your EA.
Speaker 2:Definitely Anyone at all. But you know, is that boundary setting? Is that the fault as well of the person receiving it at the time to not have the voice and the confidence? Or for me, that's happened to me, by the way I've just been in total shock where I think how do I actually respond to this person? Or am I sticking to my three strikes and you're out? Do that another two times and then I'm going to say something. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think it comes back to equal reciprocal manners and respect, like I said, but understanding how people feel, yes, but on both sides, straight away, has that person, has that executive who's come out of that meeting had any idea on the effect that speaking to that assistant in that way is going to have on them when they go home?
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely, but in a way it could be fault of the EA letting him get away with it on so many occasions instead of saying and there was always a place, a time for it, so you go. Oh, excuse me, can I have a word with you quietly in this meeting room and say I do not feel comfortable the way you spoke to me earlier. It really upset me If she didn't do that right in the beginning. He thinks he can get away or she thinks he can get away.
Speaker 2:Well, they might be completely oblivious.
Speaker 1:There's that option too.
Speaker 2:Some people just don't get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they don't connect the dots because that's the way they are. Yeah, and I have a problem with that also I have a problem.
Speaker 1:I just like do not talk to anybody like that.
Speaker 2:No and the response is optional. But even no response is a response. It's true, so pick your time, but I think you need to have that conversation and tone.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're going to be speaking about this in other episodes. But my TTT, my timing, my tone and the turf that I'm on, yeah, there's a way of dealing with any situation effectively by choosing your moment and choosing your tone in which you say it and just letting people know. Not, you know what, I know you must have had a really bit bad meeting and did that not go so well and you might get into a conversation. Well, just to let you know that I felt really shocked and hurt when I got that reaction from you and just approaching a conversation and just see what you've met with.
Speaker 2:I just get a cup of tea.
Speaker 1:And then I go to the vending machine get a chocolate and I go to the bar and the exec and say you look like you need a cup of tea and a Twix. And then I don't get shouted at because you've just been.
Speaker 2:Just diffused everything Exactly, yeah, excellent. The Crowdy Files is brought to you by Autograph Events, our show sponsors. Autograph Events are the experts in providing a complete event management solution, from free global venue finding through to full on-site event management, executive away days, team building and off-site meetings. They can help us plan it all. They offer that extra pair of hands, a bit like the assistant's assistant. The best part is, they understand how we like to work. They understand our role. So for more information, email events at autograph-eventscouk, quoting CrodiFiles2023, to find out how they can help you plan your next event and for your personal reward. Terms and conditions apply. Please see our website craigandjodiecom.
Speaker 1:So we have a listener's question.
Speaker 3:Hi Crudie, what certifications are helping a person's progress at the moment? Hi Cody, what certifications are helping assistance progress at the moment? There are so many with post-nominal initials, but what relevance, if any, do they offer and what results have you seen from investing in courses that give you this result?
Speaker 2:We are over the moon to introduce our expert contributor to answer this listener question. For us, joan Burge is the pioneer of the administrative training industry and the founder of Office Dynamics International. Joan is an accomplished author, speaker, consultant and corporate trainer who has worked with premier corporate clients globally. To find out more about Joan Burge and Office Dynamics, check out the show notes for this episode and our website for more information, plus a link to free webinars.
Speaker 4:Hi Crowdy. Thanks so much for asking me to help you answer this listener question. I'm Joan Burge, founder and CEO of Office Dynamics International. We are a global leader in the development and presentation of sophisticated training programs and information for administrative professionals, and we have been doing this since 1990.
Speaker 4:I love this question about certifications and designations. It's fabulous. So, first of all, they are different. A certification does not always come with a professional designation, but a professional designation will include certification. Professional designation will include certification. So they are different and it would be really important for administrative professionals to pay attention to those differences when they are seeking a certification or a designation.
Speaker 4:Now, as far as professional designations, there are two ways you can achieve that. The most common is by studying materials, attending maybe some virtual classes, taking a test and passing the test. Ours is a little unique in that they are curriculum-based designations, meaning you have to attend and take the courses and able to even apply for a designation. Professional designations are carrying a lot more weight today than they did in the past, and a professional designation is easily visible to others because they see the initials after your name. So I would vouch for a professional designation course.
Speaker 4:As far as the relevance also. This is more important today than ever. In the past, professional designations were important but not necessary, and organizations started moving toward requiring college degrees. Now, in the last two years, everything is shifting in the workplace, where organizations and leaders are going to place more value on certifications and designations, plus hands-on experience, while there are no guarantees that you're going to get a raise because you have a designation or a higher level position, you definitely will stand out by having those credentials, though, because they do show that you take your career seriously, that you're committed, that you're disciplined and you're a real go-getter.
Speaker 2:Well, that was amazing hearing from Joan Burge, the expert in learning and development for administrative professionals. I guess the main takeaway is learning and development is always a good idea. It shows commitment to your own growth but if it is for something very specific and you have an end goal, be cautious, as it's not a guarantee. We're now going to get back into discussing this episode. Well, that was a really interesting conversation. I like that one. I think you could go on forever about etiquette and whether we should even call it etiquette these days, but that's too old fashioned.
Speaker 1:It is old fashioned.
Speaker 2:It is. So if you've got any ideas of what the name could be apart from etiquette, let us know. But ultimately, etiquette, if you want to call it. Etiquette, is so crucial in maintaining a professional image, a persona and building strong relationships with colleagues, peers and even friends. You can transfer that into everyday situation and it will just build more credibility and visibility to you when you're seen and heard in a positive professional way?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also gives you that confidence, doesn't it? It really does? Yeah, thank you for listening. In our next episode, Mastering Common Administrative Assistant Hurdles Strategies and Solutions Administrative assistant hurdles set strategies and solutions.
Speaker 2:We would love to hear from you. Please like and subscribe so you won't miss an episode, and why not share your thoughts with us on our LinkedIn page, the CrodiFiles, or visit craigandjodiecom.
Speaker 1:I'm Craig Bryson.
Speaker 2:And I'm Jodie Mears and together we are the Croaty Files.
Speaker 1:This episode was brought to you by Autograph Events, our sponsor. It's snow tomorrow.
